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. talking guns, money and butter. butter fat to be precise. president obama inviting children to his gun policy announce many earlier today. just as the nra airs ads call is the president an elitist hypocrite for sending his children to school with armed guards. jane, is the use of children in the middle of these kinds of very, very polarized political debates, is it fair? is it right? >> i don't know. it is predictable, tyler. kids are upset about what happened at sandy hook and that's natural. i think guns, pardon the pun, make it an easy target. it is hard to to tell people that there are people in the world who are not right in the mind. >> john carnie, your thoughts? >> nothing new that children have been used for political pawns. i'm not sure this is the most rational way to conduct a political debate but it happens over and over again. >> i think the use of individuals, whether they are children, maybe especially children, being used as part of the scenery in a political event and whether the o 0rdnary people gathering around the president with a fiscal cliff thing, i think it is
voted for refusing to raise the debt ceiling in 2006, talking about president obama. >> let me give you a history. when i came to the congress in 1977, one of the first days i was there, tip o'neill saw me, said, you look like a nice young guy, we need somebody to carry out the trash. he said carrying out the trash is passing the debt limit increase. i spent five years. this is a crazy story, doing little else than going to my colleagues in the domestemocraty to get a vote in the debt ceiling. everybody wanted to vote against it because it could be used against them in the election. everybody knew it had to pass and every time it would pass by one or two votes after i worked on it for weeks and weeks. i said, this is crazy. everybody knows you have to pass it, you already spent the money, like going in a restaurant and saying, i don't want to pay the bill. that's cracrazy. we passed something called the gephardt bill when you pass the budget, you pass the debt ceiling automatically to accommodate those budget figures. yes, you're right. this issue raises all the deficit issues. it shoul
with a payment plan to prioritize how to use what money the government has on hand. but i talked to several fed officials about prior debt ceiling showdowns, and they said the fed said there would be no way to proceed without money in the treasury. we'll see what president obama says in his press conference, if he ratchets up the rhetoric this morning. he's been clear he would negotiate only spending cuts, but not in context of the debt ceiling debate. simon? >> okay. >> steve, are we all agreed on what the word default means in this case? we're going to be talking about it an awful lot. >> great question, carl. it's a political question. you can default on the interest payments, and that's a sort of, i guess the technical or legal version of default. or you can default on obligations. in other words, the government incurs a debt, but doesn't pay it. that's of a different order of magnitude from defaulting on the interest payments on the debt. in general, the white house wants you to believe that default is everything. and it's a terrible, terrible thing to happen. where as i think the republic
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